Re: [CH] Habs in Honey

Charles Demas (demas@tiac.net)
Sun, 15 Nov 1998 12:06:08 -0500 (EST) 

On Sun, 15 Nov 1998, =Mark wrote:

> At 05:39 AM 11/15/98 -0800, Rich McCormack wrote:
> >
> >The discussion of "habs in honey" and "chiles in oil" comes up 
> >once in awhile on the CH mailing list.  As I see it, the problem 
> >with "Habs in Honey" stored at room temperature would be the 
> >possibility (more likely the probability) of bacterial spores 
> >present on the chiles.  Also, there is the problem of introducing 
> >a cozy growth medium to spores possibly present in the honey by 
> >adding even squeaky clean, spore-free chiles. 
> >
> >Moist, room temperature, anaerobic...?  Sounds like a perfect  
> >environment for the reproduction of Clostridium botulinum to me.
> 
> Actually the sugar content in honey acts much like the salt in a brine
> solution.  It's osmotic properties on bacterial cell walls prevents
> bacteria from forming.  Instead of a favorable growth medium it acts as a
> preservative.  This is why syrups, honey, jams and jellies can be stored at
> room temperature.

Yes, and Colostridum botulinum also requires a certain moisture level to 
grow, which it true of most bacteria.  This is why dried chiles don't
spoil.  Remember, the botulism spores are present in honey without chiles
added.  They are present, just as pollen is present in honey, though
pollen is larger (I think).  The botulism spore is very widespread.  
It isn't the spore, or the bacterium that kills you, it is the toxin given
off by the bacteria as it develops vegitative cells, and these cells are
developed in the right growth medium, anaerobic, above a pH of 4.6, within
a certain temperature range, and with a certain minimum moisture level.

Another reminder, You don't want to feed honey to a baby.  The spores
present in the honey will develop inside the baby.

Back to the habs in honey.  The moisture from the chiles will be drawn out
by the honey and the honey will become runny because it has been watered
down. 

As to whether to partially dehydrate your habs before putting them in the 
honey, I'm not sure if this will give the desired result, but it might
make the honey less runny.  Then again, because the habs shrink when 
dehydrated (even partially dehydrated), there might be more habs that
you'd get into the honey.  

I think cutting the habs up would be better for the preservation process
to allow access to the inside of the habs.  This is all pure speculation
on my part, as I haven't tried this.

Refrigeration will generally prevent the development of botulism spores, 
and the botulism toxin is destroyed by boiling water temperatures.  Note,
the spores are not killed at that temperature.  Boiling your habs in honey
is probably not a good idea for the honey, but cooking them at high
temperature when using them should destroy any toxin if it were produced.

In general, the best idea, IMO, is to use only a few dried or partially 
dried habs (and not try to pack them in), and then to refrigerate the 
honey.  This may crystalize the honey, but warming it in warm water will
return the honey to its liquid state.  If only a few habs are used, the 
moisture level will be lower, and there would probably not be the need 
to refrigerate. 

URLs about botulism have been posted before and are available from the 
archives, or by searching the web, or by looking at the
rec.food.preserving faq.


Good luck,


Chuck Demas
Needham, Mass.

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