Re: [CH] Re: Cleaning/Sanitization
Jim Graham (spooky130@cox.net)
Wed, 20 Feb 2008 08:25:29 -0600
On Wed, Feb 20, 2008 at 07:54:01AM -0500, Cameron Begg wrote:
> John (I'm sure Jim already knows this) you can use a straight caustic
> soda (=lye, =NaOH) in all stainless steel equipment. If any other
> metals are present you will likely run into problems.
Oops...forgot to mention that.... By "problems" Cameron means,
for example, bye-bye aluminum pot (you'll see it fizzing very
quickly...I speak from experience, here...ruined one cheap
aluminum pot that needed to be in the trash anyways...the caustic
ate the bottom right out of it in about 15 minutes...good thing
it was in the sink!).
This also applies to KOH-based caustic, if I remember correctly.
> It is a great chemical for removing organic deposits in difficult
> places, but will attack humans too!
Thus the importance of wearing gloves. :-) Seriously, though, that
is the main reason why I left the discussion to KOH-based caustic.
I'd typed this up before, and edited it (along with a lot of more
brewing-specific stuff---trying not to get too far off-topic here)
out...but now it seems like it's time to put this back in.....
Several years ago, I was hanging out with Todd, the professional
brewer (and good friend) who has taught me *SO* much over the
years, in the brewery. I wasn't brewing with him that day---this
was just hanging out, drinking beers, and talking about brewing.
Anyways, somehow or another, I ended up mentioning the word, "safety"
at some point. Todd looked at me and, being Todd, said, "Ahhhhhh,
safety's for pussies!" I looked back at him and said, "Soooo, Todd,
why is it, then, that whenever you're working with hot caustic, acid
wash, and so on, you always have on the gloves up to here (elbows)
and the boots up to here (knees)?" He looked at me like I was an
idiot, because he'd taught me better and I shouldn't even have to
ask him that, and said, "'cause the shit HURTS!"
I've never forgotten that, and never will. Even after three holes
being cut out of my brain, and lots of memories disturbed or nuked,
I still have a perfectly clear image of exactly where I was standing
(on the fourth step on the steps up to the platform that provides
access to the top of the mash/lauter tun and the brew kettle), and
exactly where Todd was (half-way between the brew kettle and the first
fermenter)...... In about a microsecond after he said that last bit,
that discussion became my standard definition of "safety".....
> Think of it as soap x 1,000. It is what the anatomists use for
> removing meat from bones when they want to mount a skeleton! Be
> careful!
(Shhhh....you might give away the fact that it's useful for disposing
of the bod...oops...never mind...forget I said that. <grin>)
> Vessels cleaned with NaOH need to be rinsed thoroughly because it is
> highly basic (alkaline.) A good practice for S.S. is to rinse and
> replace with a phosphoric acid based sanitizer.
Or Iodophor, which contains phosphoric acid (at least, the good type
does).
> Then your vessel needs only a quick rinse (if at all) before use.
Rinsing after sanitizing takes you right back to needing to sanitize.
Cameron is absolutely correct, though, that, regardless of what type of
caustic (or other cleaner) you use, it must be COMPLETELY rinsed out.
Follow this with a good no-rinse sanitizer.
> any un-rinsed NaOH solution will give your sauce a terrible taste and
Ugggghhhh...yeah, no kidding. Not a pleasant smell, either.
> For other materials without stains or organic build up, boiling water
> is a fast and efficient way to keep the nasties under control. You can
> boil water IN your sauce bottles in the microwave.
As long as you remember that, unless you're boiling at 250 deg. F or
higher, for a minimum of 15 minutes (per De Clerck and Brewing Techniques
articles mentioned earlier), you are still leaving a few of the nasties
alive. Whether or not there will be enough to reproduce to the point of
being an infection is another story.
> Ooops - sorry Jim - I got carried away. You were going to do this!
> I'll try to shut up now.
No, don't...you covered some things that I didn't go into much detail
on (mainly because I didn't want to even get into NaOH because of its
hazards---I'd rather leave it at KOH unless I specifically know the
level of experience with potentially-harmful chemicals of the person(s)
I'm "talking" to).
Later,
--jim
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