Re: [CH] Regional Pronunciations
jmlane@ibm.net
Sun, 15 Feb 1998 13:14:02 PST
** Reply to note from The Old Bear <oldbear@arctos.com> Sun, 15 Feb 1998 12:16:28 -0500
The Old Bear makes some very good points in his reply...
> In Chileheads Digest, v.4 no.315, Jim Lane wrote:
>
> >Date: Sat, 14 Feb 1998 13:28:04 PST
> >From: jmlane@ibm.net
> >Subject: Re: [CH] Regional Pronunciations
> >
> >. . . There IS a pronunciation which is CORRECT for both English
> >and Spanish. . .
SNIP
> Most of us will cut a non-native speaker of English quite a bit
> of slack and, indeed, we will even be honored that this person
> is making the effort to speak to us in our own language.
This is very true, we cut non-native speakers a lot of slack as do they us in
their country. That is both one of the greqatest things about it and the worst.
Gets confusing sometimes, each trying to communicqate in each others language.
There is another cultural factor operating here too... and that is a lot of people
will not correct you because it is both considered impolite and you are not a
native speaker. This leads to such possible scenarios as saying to someone,
"well I spend a whole bunch of time travelling in XXX," and then making a
bone-headed error which runs counter to the basics of the language. Not a
nuance, but a basic part. Then definite images arise in those listening.
> However, Americans tend to be much more self-conscious about their
> own attempts at pronouncing 'foreign' words -- either being
> embarrased by their own ignorance, or wearing their ignorance as a
> badge of perverted pride (as in "I'm an American and I don't need
> to use those fancy foreign words.")
Too true, about us being self-conscious. And reverting to USian at the drop of
the first word. IT IS OK to make mistakes AND especially to learn from them.
But to go in with an attitude (more on this) that there is NO CORRECT way,
then leads to not learning at the least to images of arrogance at the worst.
Now, about attitude... Those new to this may, based upon respect for someone's
wisdom in one area (chilis and cooking), may make the mistaken assumption
that what they say in another is absolutely correct. "well, Jim said this and
he goes there all the time so I guess I can do whatever I want. I don't need
to consider pronunciation because he said..." And then they cop an attitude to
all of our detriment.
As Kaye speaks with a great deal of authority inmatters chili, does not mean she is
an authority in another. The problem arises when readers do not take what she says
with a grain of salt... uhhh, make that flake of chili. (Have to get on topic somehow).
> Of course, some of us interpret "mispronunciation" as a mark of
> stupidity -- which is suprising, because a person who mispronounces
> a word while indicating knowledge of its meaning even in a
> mispronounced form, is displaying a willingness to use the word
> to convey some subtlety of thought that a more familiar word might
> not accommodate.
Extremely right on!
> Kay's comments about there being no single "correct" pronunciation
> makes the most sense when one considers that we humans are quite
> capable of dealing with a range of pronunciations without
> loss of meaning. Although there may be a preferred or "standard"
> pronunciation, in day-to-day speech one hears -- and understands --
> a wide range of regional pronunciations, accented pronunciations,
> and less-than-faithfully adopted foreign pronunciations.
Here I stick to my there IS vs. Kaye's there IS NO... That you can
use the incorrectly prononced word and still be understood
was not the issue. I have no arguement there. It was with the absolute
statement made.
> I doubt that puting a "¤" in the pronunciation of "habanero" will
> make much difference in the type of chile which the grocer hands to
> you. And, I'd bet, that pronouncing the "j" and ignoring the "¤"
> in jalape¤o will still get you what you want at most Mexican
> restautants. And, hopefully, context will bail you out when you
> pronounce "pollo" as "polo" when telling your Mexican host what
> you'd like for dinner.
You might also get a surprise..
> Cheers,
> The Old Bear
> While it is nice to be able to use flawlessly the "standard"
> pronunciation, it is better to mispronouce than not to communicate
> at all.
Agreed.
jim
Jim Lane
The ten most powerful words:
If it is to be, it is up to me.