Re: [CH] RE: bread dip danger

Charles Demas (demas@sunspot.tiac.net)
Wed, 30 Jun 1999 20:11:58 -0400 (EDT) 

On Wed, 30 Jun 1999, Kit Anderson wrote:

> > Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 22:56:41 -0400
> > From: yoda <yoda@clark.net>
> > Subject: [CH] Re: 
> > 
> > I do this year round; in a small jar on the stove, 
> > I put 2 oz olive oil, 1 oz of whirl ( liquid fake butter )
> > 1 t dried garlic
> > 1/4 tsp dried hab ( jims apple smoked is great )
> > 1/2 tsp dried home mix ( dried homegrown datils, serranos, and
> > jalapeno                        in about equal amounts)
> > 1 tsp dried basil 
> > 
> > mix well and let stand for couple of days, then dip your bread and
> > toast, biscuits, fingers,  - tastes great IMHO
> 
> Can you spell botulism? Just because you havn't died yet doesn't mean
> this recipe isn't dangerous. If you starin out al the vegetable matter,
> you will be OK.

I don't think so Kit.  In this particular case, he's used dried garlic,
and dried chiles.  Botulism requires a minimum moisture level (among other
things) to develop.  I'm not sure if the whirl (liquid fake butter) has
any moisture in it, but if it's only oil, then the minimum moisture level
will not be achieved, and I think it will be safe.

Of course, if you substitute any fresh ingredient, the recipe can easily
become a death potion.  Now that's a scary.  Adding any moisture or other
moist ingredient could also cause the recipe to be unsafe.

FWIW, heating the above potion to about 250 F or so for 15 minutes should 
kill any botulism spores present as well as driving out any moisture 
present.  The only danger then would be the possible reintroduction of 
botulism spores after the heating.

Note that the below is all about the danger of using fresh garlic, not
dried garlic.

I'd still recommend that unless you really know what you're doing, that
you mix up whatever dip you want to use fresh for each meal, and throw
away what you do not use within a day.  IIRC, under reasonable
refrigeration, it takes more than a day for the vegetative cells that
produce the botulism toxin to develop.  Much better safe than sorry.


Chuck Demas
Needham, Mass.


> This is from the FDA- http://vm.cfsan.fda.gov/~mow/chap2.html
> 
> A bottled chopped garlic-in-oil mix was responsible for three cases of
> botulism in Kingston, N.Y. Two men and a woman were hospitalized with
> botulism after consuming a chopped garlic-in-oil mix that had been used
> in a spread for
> garlic bread. The bottled chopped garlic relied solely on refrigeration
> to
> ensure safety and did not contain any additional antibotulinal additives
> or barriers. The FDA
> has ordered companies to stop making the product and to withdraw from
> the market any
> garlic-in-oil mix which does not include microbial inhibitors or
> acidifying agents and
> does not require refrigeration forsafety. 
> 
> And from the ChileHead's Archive
> http://neptune.netimages.com/~chile/botulism.html
> 
> Scary, isn't it?
> -- 
> Kit
> 

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