[CH] (Fwd) Can you spell ded?
Kristofer Blennow (kristofer@blennow.se)
Sat, 3 Jul 1999 04:17:04 +0200
Below is the response i got from FoodSafe mailing list re Marc's
microwave question. Enjoy the writing style of Mr Custer, a fellow
CH...
I also want to comment on Tantrika's mails:
> Peppers and garlic have been used for centuries as a preservative
> (as has salt). I've stored garlic in a ceramic garlic storer for
> a long time, and braids of garlic hang for a long time.
Peppers and garlic are NOT preservatives. In fact, peppers are
notoriously known for having high contents of bad microbes. Natural
preservatives are salt, sugar and acids, the latter for instance
lactic acid produced by natural fermentation of carbohydrates by
lactic acid bacteria, or acetic acid fermentation of alcohol
(vinegar), and of course drying.
The reason for safe storing of fresh garlic is that it is an AEROBIC
environment. When you put the garlic in oil, you keep the air out,
making a perfect condition for Botulinum to grow. It will not grow in
air.
> I would be far more concerned about getting salmonella from home
> made mayo anyway, or caesar salad dressing or aioli.
Yes, the chance of getting other infections is much larger. But most
of these are possible to cure, even if they might be "slightly
annoying". However, if you get a dose of botulinum toxic, you are
DEAD.
> As long as you refrigerate the oil between usage (waiting for it
> to get liquid again as well) there should be no problem.
Well, refridgeration will probably give you a few months more to
live... ;)
Kristofer
------- Forwarded Message Follows -------
From: "Custer, Carl" <Carl.Custer@usda.gov>
To: "'FSafe'" <foodsafe@nal.usda.gov>
Subject: Can you spell ded?
Date sent: Fri, 2 Jul 1999 13:08:30 -0400
"Kristofer Blennow" Forwarded Marc's musings:
"In anticipation of bumper crops up north and repeated warnings about
botulism during canning and pickling, does anyone know about the
effects of microwaves on these little beatsies? Lore I've heard has
it that microwaves are especially effective at eliminating microbes,
and that only a minute or less in the nuke is at good or better than
several minutes of thermal boiling due to direct disruption of the
bugs by the microwaves. Any truth to this or just suburban legend? "
Worse, it's rural legend.
There were several papers in the late 70's and through the 80's
examining the effect of microwaves on bacteria (not Clostridium
botulinum IIRC). Some experiments showed microwaves had increased
lethality under specific conditions -- but, in ordinary food, it wuz
just time and temperature. Big problem with microwaves is the
selective absorbance of the energy and the non uniform heating. But,
if you're getting a good thorough boil, and you've dropped the pH
with vinegar, you should be O.K. If not, to paraphrase Dirty Harry,
"This is the deadliest microbial toxin know to humans. You've got to
ask yourself one question: Do I feel lucky? Well, do ya ChileHead?"
"For the last several seasons I've had good results (i.e. not dead
yet) pickling jals in the microwave rather than on the stove - is
this just the watchful hand of El Grande protecting the ignorant? "
Dé los gracias al " EL Grande "
Carl S. Custer
USDA FSIS OPHS SROS
carl.custer@usda.gov (simpler than the occasional mess above)
http://www.fsis.usda.gov/OPHS/fsragend.htm
The opinions expressed here are my own and do not necessarily reflect
those of USDA or FSIS
Here with guacamole & chips beneath the bough.
A cup of beer, a bowl of beans, fajitas, and thou
Beside me laughing in the park
And the park is paradise now
Carlos Khayyam 1996
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