[CH] Re: Piri Piri & Flying Peppers
Peter Moss (pmoss@yoda.alt.za)
Mon, 12 Aug 2002 21:31:28 RSA-2
> Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 23:33:09 -0600
> From: Rob Solarion <solarion@1starnet.com>
> Thanks to all for your comments about Piri Piri Peppers.
That's what we do ;-)
[snip, it's the right thing to do]
> You know, it is sometimes difficult to believe that nobody
> outside of the Americas ever knew about any hot peppers before
> Columbus. Surely there were some "Thai" peppers or whatever
> in Asia before that. I can't believe that hot peppers spread
> to the rest of the world ONLY after Columbus. But ... maybe
> so.
Also in the archives and there is an account from an Arab trader
in Africa, eeish! the memory fades that I posted around 13xx
eating chiles. I found it see below.
There were many traders and journeys about which little is
known. The Arabs and Dravidians covered much ground or should
that be water. Add the polynesians and you have an interesting
puzzle to solve. Chiles journeys clearly predate Columbus who
may have added to the popularity and availability but not the
first.
> As for flying with or without peppers, I personally have
> decided never to fly anywhere again, until some "sanity"
> returns to airline flight.
Sanity is within the airline industry, it's those fool
politicians that non chileheads keep voting into power.
Political sanity is arming F16s being flown by pimple face pilots
and being willing to shoot down the commercial airliners rather
than arm seasoned trained airline pilots. Stupidity, paranoia
and political power grabbing do not mix well with chiles.
Much more interesting and on topic
My apology for the length but it maybe of interest to the new
members.
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 18:40:15 RSA-2
From: Peter Moss <pmoss@yoda.alt.za>
Subject: Re: [CH] Chiilis in Africa 2
> Date: Tue, 15 Jun 1999 07:57:21 +0200
> From: GrantL@za.sappi.com
Thanks for the reference and information.
> I have recently come across a Dr C Hromnik who believes that
> an early Dravidian empire in India had many links with various
> parts of the world from around the time of King Solomon to
> about three centuries ago.
There is much to support this. These views were initially
dismissed by the main stream but it is becoming harder for them
to deny physical evidence. Africa was probably a source of
minerals mainly gold but obviously other trade. Customs and
food would have had the chance to intermingle and if the traders
set up mining operations or buildings even more so. There are
many ruins on the east coast of Africa including Great Zimbabwe
that probably were built to their plans.
> They brought chillie to India for their curries and also
> traded with Africa. So it seems probable that either the great
> trading nations of India or King Solomon distributed a vast
> array of produce and technology long before any European
> influence.
Pepper use in South America can be dated to 7000 BC [B.
Pickersgill]. The domesticated species had their centre of
origin as South America. If accounts of peppers in
continents other than South/North America are true. All we have
to do is figure out how they made the intercontinental trip.
If Indian, Arab and Israelite traders had peppers prior to
Columbus (ca 1493) and King Solomon reigned 974 BC..937 BC.
Then the normal mode of transport assumed to be available at the
the time, might just not be suitable for this trip.
Conventional thinking may no longer apply. This in itself is
not strange or even unusual as there are many unsolved
mysteries.
----------------------
Myron noted the efforts of Thor Heyedal and Con Tiki and latter
mainland to the islands on the polyanesians which is another
vector in the spread of plant material. These travelers most
certainly took along plants or seeds. It seems likely since
there is evidence of the origins of these people are from the
S. American mainland that chile went along for the ride.
And further on this thread
People from Malasia probably went to Madagascar about AD 500
taking with them banana, which then spread to Africa.
We can say with some certainty that crops from India reached
China some 4000 years ago. Crops originating in Africa had
reached India some 3000 years ago. Areas of interest would be
Indian, Chinese and Arab traders. Possibly the Dravidians and
Sabaeans.
Now we have banana, ginger and mango in Africa prior to 1330.
There seems little reason to doubt that what was written of the
travels of Ibn Battuta in Africa in 1330 is in fact a true
account.
I cannot explain how chile got there but when we look at the
distance from home the polynesians managed (New Zealand) why
are we surprised?
And this report
- -------------------------------------------------
http://sammcgees.com/chili/brd/brd.html
Posted by john lunz on June 18, 1998 at 10:18:39:
In Reply to: Re: In search of the periperi/piripiri/pilipili
posted by Nigel Wood on December 29, 1997 at 14:11:16:
I've been reading of the travels of Ibn Battuta in Africa in the
1330s, which clearly predates Columbus's voyages. In the books
I've read is described a meal which included the following:
..."They cook banana before it is ripe in fresh milk and they
put it on a dish, and they put sour milk in a dish with pickled
lemon on it and bunches of pickled chillies, vineagared and
salted, and green ginger and mangoes."
The footnote reference states that: "The word translated
'chillies' is 'fulfil', compare Kiswahli 'pilipili'.
Common belief is that 'chilis' were introduced to europe and
asia from south america following the opening of the 'new'
world. This reference to 'chillies' has me wondering about the
accuracy of this belief.
john lunz
- ---------------------------------------------------------
My comments
Filfil or fulfil is the arabic word for chile.
The date of 1330 predates Columbus and adds to the mystery of
chiles travels. If chiles were in Africa in 1330 how and
when did they get there?
Regards
Peter
--
Peter Moss
After one hundred and fifty years and many thousands of firearms
control laws to reduce crime the list of successes should be
long and illustrious. Where is the list?
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